AT2k Design BBS - Debate of Philosophy

I

Sat, 04 Dec 1999 15:43:57 -0600

From: Bill Wehrkamp @1717008 *1
To: Alexander Steinberg @1717008 *1
Subject: I

Re: I

> > is this making it out?
> > PC
> > ∩┐╜∩┐╜─┐∩┐╜ ∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜─┐∩┐╜∩┐╜─┐VirtualNET @1619081--(619)445-8750∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜─┐∩┐╜∩┐╜─┐∩┐╜∩┐╜─┐∩┐╜∩┐╜─┐∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜─┐
> > ∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜─┤∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜┘║ ∩┐╜ Alpine, California---FREE ACCESS ∩┐╜ ∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜┘║ ∩┐╜∩┐╜ ∩┐╜ ∩┐╜ ∩┐╜
> > ∩┐╜ ∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜ ∩┐╜ ∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜ Files Galore-Onliners-Messages ∩┐╜ ∩┐╜ ∩┐╜ ∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜ ∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜
> > 0
> > 0Via: 1619081*1 1619031*1 1619057*1 1619058*1 1616001*1 5*1 1703001*1 17030
> I see it

VirtualNet has been dead for years... it doesn't exist any more.

OI

Wed, 06 Oct 1999 19:14:44 -0500

From: Alexander Steinberg @1717008 *1
To: The Cardinal @1703003 *1
Subject: OI

Re: none

> > Why is it nessesary? More importantly how can you logically prove thi
> Because it is logically absurd to posit that order can exist apart from the
> influx of energy or the existence of an ordering intelligence.
> Ex Cathedra Cardinal
> "From the Chair of the Cardinal"

I don't know how I missed out on a conversation as good this one. Would I in
any way be correct in saying this conversation basically revolves around the
Evolution vs. Creation arguement?
If so be the case, the universe has more things happening at once than
humans could ever concieve.Not just what we DO know, but what we don't as
well. Possibility vs. Probability. Many things will happen that we don't
understand, It is possible that aliens came down and had sex with apes,
therefore creating us. It is also possible that Adam and Eve came from dust.
Even still, it is possible that a series of elements just so happened to meet
at one time. The probability, is up to each of us to conclude.
Personally, I have seen what chemical compounds can create and do. A man
with a beard that was "omniscent", never came down and smacked me in the
head...nor answered my prayers.

I

Wed, 06 Oct 1999 19:03:11 -0500

From: Alexander Steinberg @1717008 *1
To: Party Crasher @1619081 *1
Subject: I

Re: TEST

> is this making it out?
> PC
> ∩┐╜∩┐╜─┐∩┐╜ ∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜─┐∩┐╜∩┐╜─┐VirtualNET @1619081--(619)445-8750∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜─┐∩┐╜∩┐╜─┐∩┐╜∩┐╜─┐∩┐╜∩┐╜─┐∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜─┐ ∩┐╜
> ∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜─┤∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜┘║ ∩┐╜ Alpine, California---FREE ACCESS ∩┐╜ ∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜┘║ ∩┐╜∩┐╜ ∩┐╜ ∩┐╜ ∩┐╜ ∩┐╜
> ∩┐╜ ∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜ ∩┐╜ ∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜ Files Galore-Onliners-Messages ∩┐╜ ∩┐╜ ∩┐╜ ∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜ ∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜
> 0
> 0Via: 1619081*1 1619031*1 1619057*1 1619058*1 1616001*1 5*1 1703001*1 1703003

I see it

Pain

Tue, 19 Aug 1997 10:01:35 -0500

From: Dorothy James @1717008 *1
To: Stuart Lauderdale @1818009 *1
Subject: Pain

Re: The Universe.

> > But just think only pain is real.
> There are two objects of inspection in this analysis: Reality and Actuality.

Pain is real and can be felt whether it be in heartache, in the body, or in
the soul or mind. Feeling is the key word here. Pain is pain no matter
where it is.

Something to think about

Tue, 19 Aug 1997 09:57:07 -0500

From: Dorothy James @1717008 *1
To: Ron Mauch @9198 *1
Subject: Something to think about

Re: Something to think about

> When life is difficult for you,
> Always keep a smile handy, because it's so easy to share.

A smile and a hug are the best gifts in the world. :)

Correct

Tue, 19 Aug 1997 09:54:34 -0500

From: Dorothy James @1717008 *1
To: Aslum Khan @1708015 *1
Subject: Correct

Re: Concrete Answers

> > I think most people are just trying to find something to help them deal
> > with their little corners of the universe. But a lot of decisions are
> > made about what happens in your corner of the universe based on the

Everyone starts out in their own little corner of the world in infancy and as
they grow, others eventually are added. Sometimes it is difficult to sort it
all out and sometimes as you grow older you need to step back into your own
little corner and rethink and revamp ideas, concepts and life's little
problems. There is a problem though when you shut everything and everyone
out and remain in that little corner.
Not everything in life is black and white, you do have choices and there is
always that gray corner that pops up occasionally.

Reality.

Tue, 19 Aug 1997 09:50:41 -0500

From: Dorothy James @1717008 *1
To: arie fraza @1812015 *1
Subject: Reality.

Re: Reality.

> Well it is not a choise, Reality is the pain you suffer.
> Nothing is for ever, pain and happines are the same.
> The way we train our childeren to experence reality is the way
> the child will see the world. So what if I train the child to

Another example of This too shall pass.....

Stagnation

Tue, 19 Aug 1997 09:48:12 -0500

From: Dorothy James @1717008 *1
To: Pebble Konopinski @1803005 *1
Subject: Stagnation

Re: Stagnation

> offend...but, please! The moment we stop growing and searching is the moment
> we as a species (as well as individuals) start stagnating...I must not be an
> "average" person since I will never be satisfied to sit back and be
> comfortable letting someone else (who DOES have the drive and ambition to
> question still) dictate to me what the "truth" and "reality" is...Perhaps tha

When we stop questioning and evaluating is when life becomes stagnate, when
you stand by to do nothing and watch the terrorism and murder and crime grow.
When you turn you cheek and let the abuse of children, the hunger, the
violence continue-life is stagnate.

When you care about no one but yourself and your own selfish ways,
when you are ignorant, unkind and cruel-life is stagnate.

When you allow alcohol and drugs and unprotected sex to take over your life
it is stagnate. When you don't care, then life is worthless.

my philsophy

Fri, 31 Jan 1997 09:17:55 -0600

From: Mary Jane Piersa @1717008 *1
To: All @ *1
Subject: my philsophy

My ideal philsophy is to live for today and make each moment count because we
are here so short a time and when you let the moments pass you can never get
them back. If you let the opportunity pass you may have missed something
wonderful. When you dedicate your life to doing things other peoples ways
then you are but a pawn. Be your own person and use wisdom in your decisions.
It is not just black and white, there are allowances for gray areas. Those
gray areas are events beyond your control. The ones that are black and white
are the ones you can decide how to manage. You cannot turn back the hands of
time but you can move on and change or alter things. Go for it!

life goes on:

Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:30:55 -0600

From: Mary Jane Piersa @1717008 *1
To: All @ *1
Subject: life goes on:

Most of it goes on in turmoil because of the events of our lives and the way
things have been happening to us since the day we were born. Life does dish
out some harsh realities but in many senses it is our past upbringing that
alters our way of thinking and the events of our lives that make us partially
what we are today. Yes, we have the power to change our lives but our mental
status and our emotional status affect the way we make those decisions too.

and so...

Sun, 05 Jan 1997 21:23:50 -0600

From: Mary Jane Piersa @1717008 *1
To: All @ *1
Subject: and so...

Life goes on with many unanswered questions.....

Maybe/maybe not

Sun, 05 Jan 1997 21:19:16 -0600

From: Mary Jane Piersa @1717008 *1
To: All @1717008 *1
Subject: Maybe/maybe not

Re: you're both right

Re: Faith vs reason
look guys, you're both right in a way. God is in the hearts of those who wish
to believe. these people have every right to believe in something no matter
what. after all, i dont see these people slaming you. but however, i think
that some of the things in the bible may not be true. you have to consider
the fact that when this stuff really happened, these people didnt have the
intelligr=ence that we have today. when something would happen that they
could not explain, the as far as they were concerned, it was an act of GOD.
if that kind of stuff were to happen today, we would be able to figure out
how and why it happened.

There still is so much unexplained...
We hear God is a loving God and we hear God is a vengeful God, which is it?
We hear that God never gives us more than we can handle, well let me tell
you, there are too many instances where innocent children, adult and families
are ripped apart by cruel people! Why then do the givers hurt so much and
the takers in life have it all. There are just too many unanswered questions
in the hearts and minds of people. We are told that someday we will know but
will we? We are told God is always there but is he? We are told everything
has a reason for happening but look around at the innocent children that are
persecuted, maimed and killed for no viable reason. Oh, I could go on and on
but I wont, I know in my heart that God is there but sometimes I think he is
too far away, the closer I try to get the more questions arise that there
seem to be no answer for. No matter who you talk to they cant answer those
questions or their philosophy is so differant you dont know who or what to
believe anymore. The heart feels, the head cant figure it out.

I agree

Thu, 16 May 1996 17:10:03 -0500

From: Robin Hoagland @1717008 *1
To: All @1717008 *1
Subject: I agree

Re: sin?

Is it natural, or a constraint developed by society? Remember that human
beings wrote the Bible, not God... I guess it's only natural that human
beliefs (and societal constraints) appear. Is this really God's law?
I'm not so sure. I think it's God's law interpreted by human beings, with
plenty of human beliefs thrown in to make everything confusing.
But this doesn't prove that God specifically created them that way. Sure,
it's a possibility, but the other equally likely possibility is that they
simply evolved that way. It's difficult (for me, at least) to comprehend
given the short span of a human life how much time an evolution like this
would take.

Well now I agree with Bill W too. I really think that Adultery is a sin
because society made it that way not God. There is too much bigamy in the
bible. I also believe that the bible consist more of our forefathers beliefs
that actual accounts. I think Bill can vouge that I'm not a overly religious
person, but I find it hard to believe, not hard, but difficult that it
happened this way.

I also agree with Bill that the zebras eventually evolved into the striped
breed. I don't believe that god created man either. Our own scientific
discoveries have shown that we most likely evolved from the primate, rather
than man being taken from the earth and woman from mans rib. I really hope
this isn't to far off base for you, but I'm really skeptical of what we are
supposed to believe.

Exactly

Thu, 16 May 1996 16:53:22 -0500

From: Robin Hoagland @1717008 *1
To: All @1717008 *1
Subject: Exactly

Re: sin?

shall not comit adultry" ? that is basically saying that if you are married
that you should stay sexually monagomous with that person. not only does
religion teach that, but society as well. and i must admit that if the other
partner in a marrage doesnt consent, its not a very nice thing to do. but it
IS only human to have desires of other people. personally, i dont believe
that the human race is a monagamous race (biologically in the brain) i think
that when our fore fathers were walking aroung on there nuckles, they were
banging every female in sight! so i think that religion has laws that go
AGAINST human nature. as far as how A God created the universe is another

Thank God someone finally agrees with my point! And I'm really glad that you
understood what I was trying to say. My point simply is that it's supposed
to be a sin for us not to be faithful to our spouses, and maybe it is. But
if this is one of Gods laws then why is it that Josephs father Jacob had 3
wives and 11 brothers and sisters (I think thats the count)? The law of
monagamy is a man made law. And thank you Bill for realizing that, and
agreeing with me. There are to many contradictory statements in the bible,
and the bible shouldn't be associated with Gods law.

sin?

Wed, 15 May 1996 22:59:35 -0500

From: Bill Wehrkamp @1717008 *1
To: Bill Spies @1717008 *1
Subject: sin?

Re: sin?

that when our fore fathers were walking aroung on there nuckles, they were
banging every female in sight! so i think that religion has laws that go
AGAINST human nature. as far as how A God created the universe is another

That's a very interesting point... I suppose that is somewhat against human
nature. But in a civilized society, this is the way we're expected to act.
Is it natural, or a constraint developed by society? Remember that human
beings wrote the Bible, not God... I guess it's only natural that human
beliefs (and societal constraints) appear. Is this really God's law?
I'm not so sure. I think it's God's law interpreted by human beings, with
plenty of human beliefs thrown in to make everything confusing.

story. For example, lets take a look at the zebra. many people cant
understand why a zebra has black and white stripes. what kind of camoflage is
that? well, its a damn good one! the main predator of the zebra is the lion.
the lion does not have the eye sight that we have, as a matter of fact its
very poor. when the zebra's run in heards, the stripes cause a stobe light
effect one the lions eyes and the lion cant single out any one particular
zebra. so the zebra has a fighting chance. now you cant tell me that many
many years ago the zebra got tigether and said, "hey dudes, this is how the
lion works and this is how we are going to protect ourselves". and i dont
think there is any other animal ,ancient or present, that the zebra could
have evolved from that also have stripes. even if they did, then that animal
was created that way for a reason. so therefore, A GOD DID create the
universe we are forced to live in but religion that billions of people
blindly follow is made by man (but if they want to follow religion, then
thats ok because i also believe that we as humans can like by our own free
will).

You've made some great points in this post, many of which I agree with.
This last one can come under debate, though. This sounds like the old
creation vs. evolution issue.

Certainly the zebras didn't get together one day and decide to grow stripes.
But this doesn't prove that God specifically created them that way. Sure,
it's a possibility, but the other equally likely possibility is that they
simply evolved that way. It's difficult (for me, at least) to comprehend
given the short span of a human life how much time an evolution like this
would take.

But consider how they might have evolved this way- maybe there were some
all white zebras, who consistently got eaten by lions. And maybe there
were some all black zebras, who also got eaten by lions. And then one
day a freak (mutation) appears, with stripes... and alas, escapes the
lions more often than the others. This zebra breeds, and its offspring
also eludes the lions while the others are more likely to be caught.
Eventually, the striped zebras are dominant, and the white-only and black-only
zebras disappear.

More likely this was a slow evolution, but the point is there. I think I
just opened up a whole new topic...